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My Current Take on League


kyro
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I want to start a discussion about general thoughts on League. I wanted to hear thoughts on the current state of everyone’s mental, whether you are having fun playing, or maybe some encouraging words. I feel like making this thread because I've played this game for so long and it means a lot to me.

I’ve been playing League since January of 2014 (I believe) and I am going through a severe burnout phase that I have never gone through before. I have no desire to play this game or maintain my rank. It has gotten to the point where I have decided that I am going to let myself decay because I seriously dread having to play ranked so that I can avoid decay (the decay process is different in my rank than in most). Most people would probably read this and think I just need a break. In my opinion, I take breaks from this game more frequently than the average player with the most recent break coming about two and a half weeks ago. After these breaks I generally feel rejuvenated and ready to play. As I’ve said already, that was not the case this time and I just can’t get the fire back that I had in the past.

In today’s game, the jungler decides the game. I find it annoying that one single player is unable to make mistakes in the game or else all map pressure is lost, towers are lost, and the enemy team slowly constricts you. I feel I enjoy the game the most when playing the jungle, as support is just stale to me and my impact on the game is minimal compared to a few patches ago. Although jungle is more playable for me right now, I still feel like I’m not having fun. I’m not trying to go off  and sound like Hashinshin, but I think it might contribute to my problem.

I could go on, but I want to hear your thoughts as well.

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I know I piss and moan a lot so I will constructively give my take on League and try to make it adjacent to your post.

 

"the jungler decides the game" - True. But even more precise, jungle PICKS. For better or worse, the state of the game favors a fast-paced style of playing. Jungle used to be a supportive role to the overall flow of the game compared to now it's almost like a 1v1 lane in the sense that if your presence is more dominating, whether it be counter jungling , vision control, fear of  1v1 potential,  map and  game control is imminent.  There are exceptions to that rule but, as a whole, deviating from that "punish soon, punish hard" style of play / champion pool feels gloomy.

 

As to your point of needing breaks... I've played over 1,000 ranked games this season.  Those mainly happened in the first couple of months. I'm constantly playing other games now and enjoying them more than I do League. I might ranked twice a month. Why is that?  Enough about my incoherent ranting and let's look at people who actually know statistics / game design to answer that question.

 

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/gnOFYO6O-touching-base-on-mid-season-marksman-and-snowballing

 

"Trapped" games this season. No longer is it an iillusion that games appear to be over within the first portion of a game now than ever before.  I feel that it is disheartening as a player to know that a win or loss will probably be decided in the early stages of the game. In previous seasons, even with a feeding lane  you felt like you had a chance, if only a smidge of a chance. Being positive, working with your team, and coordinating well could reward you with such satisfying comebacks. 

 

On top of the feast or famine game experience, people have become ever so easily agitated and willing to give up more than before, in my personal experience. Morale seems to be way down.  It just does not feel as "rewarding" as it used to and I honestly can't say what that reason is specifically. I've never burned out on League until recently either, so I may be completely off in all of this but I feel it must tie in some how with your own ranked experiences.

 

Solutions? I would just like to see overall damage down, true damage decreased, scuttle control importance decreased (as far as gold / exp goes... the vision alone would be intriguing but not enough to warrant duelists to command them.), and possibly something along the lines of making turrets a little sturdier. Not a fan of lethality either, the math is a little wonky and would be hard to maintain a healthy balance on it. Again, not saying I'm the wizard on this , just some thoughts I've thrown around. I would kill for League to be that "can't get enough , spam games all day" feeling about it again.

TLDR: My 2 cents

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I've been playing since summer 2011, and I've more or less stopped playing solo games of League. I have gone through the burnout like you described, both the "ignore the game for several weeks" as well as a straight stop of playing league (I missed basically the entirety of s6). Season 4 was the last season I actually tried to climb, finishing in d2. Season 5 I placed into plat 1, climbed into d5, then decided it just... wasn't worth playing ranked. I knew I was still a high d2/low d1 support player, and I didn't need to quantify that by grinding games. I still played normals with friends, and still played in my college club's league. Towards the end of s5, I stopped playing league in favor of many other single and multiplayer games, such as Civ V, Rimworld, Overwatch, Factorio, Don't Starve (/Together). Even now that I'm back, I still don't really touch ranked. I helped Epic get to d5, but otherwise didn't do much ranked. I'll be G1 in a week or 2.

League right now is incredibly bursty, which tends to feel the worst on supports, because you are very often the first person into a fight, and die for it, even if it's the correct play. Bottom lane is weird, since you can't pick a single support to play right now (except maybe fiddle). A fast pushing Heimer doesn't want an Alistar. A Jhin doesn't really want a Brand. Even with a decent support pool, often your role just turns into sitting around, placing wards.

Edited by MadCast: Pushover
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As a lower ELO player I'll throw my hat into the ring here and give my perspective on things.

8 hours ago, MadCast: kyro said:

In today’s game, the jungler decides the game. I find it annoying that one single player is unable to make mistakes in the game or else all map pressure is lost, towers are lost, and the enemy team slowly constricts you. I feel I enjoy the game the most when playing the jungle, as support is just stale to me and my impact on the game is minimal compared to a few patches ago. Although jungle is more playable for me right now, I still feel like I’m not having fun. I’m not trying to go off  and sound like Hashinshin, but I think it might contribute to my problem.

7 hours ago, MadCast: Usefully Useless said:

"the jungler decides the game" - True. But even more precise, jungle PICKS. For better or worse, the state of the game favors a fast-paced style of playing. Jungle used to be a supportive role to the overall flow of the game compared to now it's almost like a 1v1 lane in the sense that if your presence is more dominating, whether it be counter jungling , vision control, fear of  1v1 potential,  map and  game control is imminent.  There are exceptions to that rule but, as a whole, deviating from that "punish soon, punish hard" style of play / champion pool feels gloomy.

This right here is what I feel is hurting the game the most right now.  The fact that 1 role and to an extent 1 pick dictates the flow of the game and can often make or break the game before the 10 minute mark.  Part of the problem with this, IMO, is the scuttle control conundrum.  It rewards WAY TOO MUCH XP for a non combat monster in the jungle and far more gold than it should.  I probably wouldn't have as much of an issue with it if it were just high gold reward and lower XP though.  This coupled with the fact that the game is in a state of "feast or famon" just kills the game experience for me.  Little mistakes that either I make or other lanes make get too easily punished with the lack of catchup XP and snowball pace of the game.  Even if you play lane great you can still get punished depending on your pick.  The game is in a state of accelerated instant gratification.  You can win lane as an Orianna (i.e. you keep your tower till 20 minutes and aren't behind in CS by say 20) but because

 

the enemy team has something like say a Talon who has earlier item spikes (I could be wrong but the point still stands) you will have little to no impact in the game because he is faster at roaming and does more damage faster.  Yea you might get that dream ult of 4 or 5 man shockwave but overall its just not going to matter unless it wins you the game on that push.

All in all for the jungle to determine the game is just a really bad place for the game to be in right now.

7 hours ago, MadCast: Usefully Useless said:

"Trapped" games this season. No longer is it an iillusion that games appear to be over within the first portion of a game now than ever before.  I feel that it is disheartening as a player to know that a win or loss will probably be decided in the early stages of the game. In previous seasons, even with a feeding lane  you felt like you had a chance, if only a smidge of a chance. Being positive, working with your team, and coordinating well could reward you with such satisfying comebacks. 

This is very prevalent in games that I've played lately whether its normal or the couple ranked games I've been in.  Its an impossible position to be in when you end up going even in lane but the other two lanes have been getting camped or just losing hard and you are now 4 levels lower than the mid laner.  There no longer is a reasonable way to make up the xp difference nor the gold defecate.  Historically in the past you could farm the side waves when they get to your turret with vision in the jungle lane or just wait for it to hit your base turret.  You cant do this anymore because of how out of hand the damage is right now.  Burst is out of hand and true damage needs to be limited to a max of like 20% instead of being able to climb up to 90% (fuck you Master Yi).

 

7 hours ago, MadCast: Usefully Useless said:

On top of the feast or famine game experience, people have become ever so easily agitated and willing to give up more than before, in my personal experience. Morale seems to be way down.  It just does not feel as "rewarding" as it used to and I honestly can't say what that reason is specifically. I've never burned out on League until recently either, so I may be completely off in all of this but I feel it must tie in some how with your own ranked experiences.

 

Solutions? I would just like to see overall damage down, true damage decreased, scuttle control importance decreased (as far as gold / exp goes... the vision alone would be intriguing but not enough to warrant duelists to command them.), and possibly something along the lines of making turrets a little sturdier. Not a fan of lethality either, the math is a little wonky and would be hard to maintain a healthy balance on it. Again, not saying I'm the wizard on this , just some thoughts I've thrown around. I would kill for League to be that "can't get enough , spam games all day" feeling about it again.

I fall into this a lot in my games.  I get angry, frustrated, down right cantankerous.  Its something I have been constantly working on and the MadCast community in general has greatly improved my mentality in this aspect.  I still have a lot of games where I lash out, which is on me, but it would help if riot wasn't forcing this "unforgiving" and "snowball" meta changes on us then not listening to what seems like the masses that we want some stability and enjoyment back in the game.

 

One last thing I'd like to complain about would be the fact that they destroyed supports by reducing the assist gold.  This will forever piss me off.  The least they could do is if they are going to destroy our income like that would be to load it into our "support item" by giving us like 30 gold toward the 500 we need to finish the quest for each assist.  This still wouldn't be a solution but at least it would let supports do what they are supposed to do and assist "SUPPORT" their team. 

"If you are good at something never do it for free." 

 

 

Some of the things that I have seen that seem to be a move in the right direction would be that Marksmen seem to be in a better place than they were.  Still seems to be like 3 or 4 only get played but at least they are being played instead of having like 4 mages in the game (ziggs brand bot, syndra/viktor mid, nid/taliyah/cho jungle, Swain/Heimer/Akali top lane).  I miss that knowledge of being able to prepare for my lane matchup without having to wildly guess who I'm up against and thus playing Russian roulette.

I am a big fan of how important vision is and how much its emphasized in gameplay.

 

With that I'm done with my rant.  I will probably think of more later though.

 

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Ok so after a bit more reading I would also like to pose the questoin: do you think league is too fast paced or too slow paced on average?.  do you want to play a game where you need to invest 30 to 45 minutes to play and its a battle back and forth? or would you rather it be a game thats over in 25 minutes and you can move on to your next game?

Personally I prefer the longer game as it has felt more balanced in the past compared to the state of the game now.

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My thoughts on damage in League:

It's way too easy to build a straight offensive stat in a non-crit build. In previous seasons (5 and before), to look at AD assassins/high AD fighters, your options for AD/armor penetration items were very limited. There was no Duskblade, Yomuu's was awkward on assassins due to providing attack speed (and crit if we go back far enough), Black Cleaver was good after it was remade (holy crap that was back in season 2???). Maw, once it was added, provided a reasonable AD item as well as some MR. There was no AD + Armor item for assassins (Atma's Impaler was for tanky AD champions) the way GA is now. Last Whisper, back when it was a ~2300 gold item that provided 35/40% armor penetration was a good item, but it didn't actually provide a lot of AD (40). Overall, this left AD assassins without the easiest build path. A typical finished build of S4/5 would look like CDR boots, Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, Maw, GA, and a random other item like old Essence Reaver or Yomuus. You had more % armor penetration than you do now, a lot less AD, less flat penetration, and often had to go CDR boots or %CDR/level runes to actually reach 40% CDR. This meant you either didn't have Tabis/Mercs, or didn't have early MR. Now, a typical build looks like Tabi, Duskblade, Yomuus, Black Cleaver, GA, Maw, providing a ton of flat penetration, 40 (50% now) CDR, a LOT of AD, and a bit of health. The sheer difference in AD makes a huge difference vs low armor targets, since with the armor penetration, you deal close to true damage anyways.

For mages of S4/5, almost everyone went either Morellos or Athene's for mana regen and CDR. Athene's was better into  mages generally, because it provided some MR.  The classic complaint from mages was that they couldn't really easily fill out an item build, you had a mana regen item, Deathcap, Zhonyas, and then not a lot of other choice for the last 2 items. Abyssal Scepter was good vs other mages since it provided MR. Tear stacking was OK on some champions, but came at the cost of your first completed mana regen item. GA was acceptable, Banshees was also OK in some situations, and QSS was useful vs some champions specifically. S5 solved this by adding Ludens, which provided an interesting choice of more power now compared to an earlier Deathcap providing more power later. Now, the mana regen item provides more AP, Haunting Guise Oblivion Orb builds into a more powerful magic penetration item, and Void Staff provides a fairly high amount of AP.

 

I don't mind the amount of true damage in the game right now, honestly. It's not too different from when Last Whisper provided 40% armor penetration along with Black Cleaver shredding more of your armor, so you would stack health a little heavily on tanks. IE as a first item was pretty dumb, too, a lot of fights were RNG based where the first ADC to crit would win.

 

I do think that games are too short nowadays, it feels like you get so much gold from everything that it isn't uncommon to finish a build by 35 minutes if you are fed. It used to be ~40-45 minutes before you would see completed item builds, and I miss games going to the 55-60 minute range, where the game turned into a very close game where a messed up teamfight costs the game. Top lane used to have a lot of time to spend laning each other, both sides trying to look for favorable trades to eke out an advantage, and it was more often a case of trying to become a more useful champion for teamfights/lategame than it was killing your opponent. Now, since there is much more skirmishing going around on the map, top lane is less about dueling your opponent and more about supporting your jungler/team. It's more difficult to make an impact in short games from toplane. Due to the number of skirmishes that happen now (from scuttle changes, promoting invades, etc), the jungler does have a bigger role in the game, and often it's the team that needs to follow up on the jungler.

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I wouldn't necessarily agree that top lane is more about helping the team. If anything, I feel the top lane has remained the steadiest among the five positions. People can still play tanks to farm in lane and look for a tp play, or people can still play bruisers and try to force kills and get an early tower.

But it certainly is true that the team needs to follow up on the jungler. Because of this, the top lane "I'm going to take your tower" mentality and style of play has inevitably decreased. This contradicts what I just said, but I feel the top laner is able to ignore his jungler more easily than the bot lane should. Adding to that, I often force myself to take an extremely awkward path to assist my jungler that I would never do in the past. In the past it used to be that you left the jungler if he was overextended in the river by his own doing. Now it feels like I have to force myself to go to the river to help him because I know the game is weighted more heavily from this one play.

To add to your discussion on damage as a whole, I sometimes I do feel it is over the top. I will be playing Braum or Ali and just get decimated by the combo of an itemless Zoe. A Tiamat Talon will slam his face on his keyboard and do 80% of my hp without an auto attack.

And to answer Support Welfare's question, I think the longer game would be more beneficial to League. Riot has made it known in the past that they do not want longer games, though. If the games were longer, champions like Vayne and Jinx could really come online if the team played properly. This could allow teams to build compositions around snowballing or the late game. Now you just can't build a late game team and reasonably expect to win the game in a solo queue setting. Games hardly exceed 30 minutes it seems, so it is just a battle of which mage or bruiser can snowball and take control of the game first.

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15 hours ago, MadCast: Support Welfare said:

Ok so after a bit more reading I would also like to pose the questoin: do you think league is too fast paced or too slow paced on average?.  do you want to play a game where you need to invest 30 to 45 minutes to play and its a battle back and forth? or would you rather it be a game thats over in 25 minutes and you can move on to your next game?

Personally I prefer the longer game as it has felt more balanced in the past compared to the state of the game now.

My opinion on this is : Games should not be longer just for the sake of having a long, drawn out game. However,  a team that made early mistakes should be able to come together, whether it is a good team fight comp or decision making, to delay the game long enough to feel like it's not an impossible task. On the other hand, quick games should be quick when the *TEAM* collectively makes good decision making and macro... Not one snowballing champ that goes and one shots lane after lane until the life is squeezed from the game.

On that note... The game feels like it doesn't require actual thinking anymore. It's like Ricky Bobby League where ya gotta go fast, if ya ain't first yer last. You just put your foot on the pedal, don't think about the other side of the map, pick (insert strong jungler here) and just go do insane damage until someone cries uncle.

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As far as breaks go, I pretty much took a 2 month break, and it's been very rejuvenating for me, I'm looking forward to getting back to league, so maybe you just need a bit of a longer break? 

 

As far as the state of the game itself, I feel like a lot of the players are just as toxic as before and the problem only continues to get worse. IMHO, riot doesn't give a shit about the toxic community, if they did, they would implement extremely more severe penalties for a great deal of things.

One of my biggest griefs about ranked, which goes back to what you guys were talking about, you automatically get punished completely if you lose, regardless of how well you did, and you automatically get rewarded, even if you did awful. It's pretty silly how bad that system is, especially with people exploiting the game through boosting. 

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