MailMan

The Rocket League vs League game

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I keep hearing about this League match vs Rocket League players and I want to say I can't wait to beat all of these League players >:). 

GLHF! (P.S. I hope its on the weekend sometime)

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1 hour ago, MailMan said:

I keep hearing about this League match vs Rocket League players and I want to say I can't wait to beat all of these League players >:). 

GLHF! (P.S. I hope its on the weekend sometime)

Myself and @MadCast: Shattered talked about this today a little and we're working out the specifics. I can't wait to beat the RL players at their own game. I have promised @MadCast: Ascent that I will dunk on him.

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14 hours ago, MadCast: Mike said:

Myself and @MadCast: Shattered talked about this today a little and we're working out the specifics. I can't wait to beat the RL players at their own game. I have promised @MadCast: Ascent that I will dunk on him.

I'm sure @MadCast: Ascent will love to see that happen, we just have to wait and see.

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I'd propose these rules:

Each team can only have a maximum of 9 players (including their coach's - Shattered and Mike) - All players for all games must primarily play RL or LoL, respective to their teams.

--

Rocket League (6 points available)

3v3 (Winner takes 4 points total)

1v1 Coaches (Winner takes 2 points)

 

League of Legends (6 points available)

5v5 SR (Winner takes 4 points)

1v1 Coaches ARAM - First death loses or first to 100 cs wins (Winner takes 2 points)

 

TFT (15.5 points available)

1) 5 points

2) 4 points

3) 3 points

4) 2 points

5) 1 point

6) 0.5 points

7-10 = no points

 

If both teams took their respective games, you go into TFT even. If you snag a game though, it's still not over, but TFT becomes way more important. Additionally, could use strategy in TFT to prop your guys up.

 

Thoughts? @MadCast: Mike @MadCast: Shattered

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@MadCast: Dez TFT should be 4 people from each team, aka a 4v4 in a ffa setting.

6 hours ago, MadCast: Dez said:

TFT (15.5 points available)

1) 5 points

2) 4 points

3) 3 points

4) 2 points

5) 1 point

6) 0.5 points

7-10 = no points

I would fix this and drop off points because no one wants to have to work with decimals or half points, so instead we could make it like the following:

TFT (19 points available)

1) 6 points

2) 5 points

3) 4 points

4) 3 points

5) 1 points

6-8* = no points

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7 hours ago, MadCast: Dez said:

I'd propose these rules:

Each team can only have a maximum of 9 players (including their coach's - Shattered and Mike) - All players for all games must primarily play RL or LoL, respective to their teams.

--

Rocket League (6 points available)

3v3 (Winner takes 4 points total)

1v1 Coaches (Winner takes 2 points)

 

League of Legends (6 points available)

5v5 SR (Winner takes 4 points)

1v1 Coaches ARAM - First death loses or first to 100 cs wins (Winner takes 2 points)

 

TFT (15.5 points available)

1) 5 points

2) 4 points

3) 3 points

4) 2 points

5) 1 point

6) 0.5 points

7-10 = no points

 

If both teams took their respective games, you go into TFT even. If you snag a game though, it's still not over, but TFT becomes way more important. Additionally, could use strategy in TFT to prop your guys up.

 

Thoughts? @MadCast: Mike @MadCast: Shattered

 

1 hour ago, MadCast: Craiden said:

@MadCast: Dez TFT should be 4 people from each team, aka a 4v4 in a ffa setting.

I would fix this and drop off points because no one wants to have to work with decimals or half points, so instead we could make it like the following:

TFT (19 points available)

1) 6 points

2) 5 points

3) 4 points

4) 3 points

5) 1 points

6-8* = no points

TFT is not the tie breaker as per discussion with @MadCast: Mike the tie breaker will be Counter strike best of 30 as a normal ranked match since TFT is an offshoot of League of Legends.

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I would say CSGO should be the tie breaker, or even something like pummel party if everyone has access to a game like that.

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17 hours ago, MadCast: CoachRivers said:

After we dominate the LoL heathens, we will come for the Destiny 2 Tribe.

You say that, but you turned down playing us in TFT, so you can't really say anything about dominating tbh.

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Why TFT shouldn't be the tie breaker

The game is based on RNG. Sure, everyone has the same chance to get what they need, but on a one-off game like this, the sample size can't balance out the RNG. 

Let me put it to you this way: there are two teams with two people on each side. They flip a coin and the team that flips the most tails win. 
Round 1: Team 1 flips 2 tails, Team 2 flips 2 heads. Team 1 wins.
Round 2: Team 1 flips 2 heads, Team 2 flips 2 tails. Team 2 wins.

They would be tied if they played two games but since they only played once, the team that got lucky the first time wins.

With a big enough sample size, RNG won't matter as the distribution will be 50/50. With a sample size of 1, it's just RNG.

Now, I'm not saying TFT isn't a game of skill. There is a lot of game mechanic that you have to know to be able to play it well. Things like knowing when and how to eco, knowing when to roll, transitioning builds, positioning, etc are all skills that you use to play TFT.

But when it comes to what items you get, how many items you get, what champions show up on your shop, how the champions position and who they attack after the start of the fight... that stuff's all RNG.

You can manipulate it slightly with the skills you possess. You can position so that your team hopefully kills their carry quickly. But once the round starts, you can't force your Cho'Gath to ult their entire team instead of that one Poppy that randomly walked off by herself to fight something else. 

You can also hit higher levels quicker by eco-ing better so that you have a higher chance to hit Legendaries. Your chance increases, sure, but you can't force the game to roll that 15% more often. But, some random person could find 3 Pantheons at level 5, not even eco-ing.

Being skillful at the game will help you win more, as the game isn't 100% RNG based. But the fact is, even skillful players will lose once in a while to bad players who just get insanely lucky.

And it'll balance out with a big sample size, but not in a one-off game.

 

Games like Rocket League and League of Legends have no RNG.

There is nothing in Rocket League left to chance. Every bounce and every hit are consistent with the physics of the game that cannot be altered.

In League of Legends, sure there are some things left up to chance -- things like Blue/Red side spawn, and which drag spawns. But this affects both teams equally. No one gains an advantage because both teams are affected by it. Hitbox, last-hitting, and everything else are left up to skill. 
(Blue side advantage seems to no longer be impactful as ranked solo queue has 51.5% winrate for blue side but ranked flex queue has 51.4% winrate for red side.)

 

CS:GO also has nothing left to chance. Even the side switches so both teams have a chance to play T and CT. An advantage gained by the CT team in a CT favored map is gone because when the teams switch, the economy also resets for both teams.

 

You can't argue the math, but you can argue that you'd like to leave the tie-breaker up to chance if you want to play TFT.

 

Edited by MadCast: Ascent

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I can't wait to get my new house so I can participate.  I say the Rocket League team goes up against everyone at their own games in a weekly or monthly event.  Once I'm all set up in the new house I'll even start casting again!  Btw, I don't think anyone stands a chance against our Rocket League crew, even at their own games... :)

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17 hours ago, MadCast: Ascent said:

There is nothing in Rocket League left to chance. Every bounce and every hit are consistent with the physics of the game that cannot be altered.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

If anyone doesnt think CSGO is a good option, dont complain about it, give me a solution. tell me what you think a better option would be and we will move from there.

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I mean if we're that worried about inconsistency in TFT, then have 3 matches, and add up the totals for each team, gives you a better sample size if you're that concerned about inconsistency.

On 10/18/2019 at 5:39 PM, MadCast: Ascent said:

There is nothing in Rocket League left to chance. Every bounce and every hit are consistent with the physics of the game that cannot be altered.

I worry about you when you make these comments.  This comment assumes that the physics of the game are perfect, and that you can't get (in your terms) lucky and clip a goal in / out via a glitch or RNG.

I won't go into a ton of details here responding to Ascent's post, because myself and @MadCast: Lunalesk already made it clear to him in a conversation last night that TFT isn't as RNG laden as he seems to think it is.  There's definitely more skill to it and strategy, and it's very possible, even if you don't get the items you need from minions to find a way to win.  When the chips are down, skilled players utilize what they have and find a way to win.

Besides, if it's a 4v4 ffa, and we run 3 games of it, then we just add each player's points from where they place to their team and see who wins. 3 games also doesn't take that long assuming people aren't messing around in between games.

Edited by MadCast: Craiden

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37 minutes ago, MadCast: Craiden said:

I mean if we're that worried about inconsistency in TFT, then have 3 matches, and add up the totals for each team, gives you a better sample size if you're that concerned about inconsistency.

I worry about you when you make these comments.  This comment assumes that the physics of the game are perfect, and that you can't get (in your terms) lucky and clip a goal in / out via a glitch or RNG.

I won't go into a ton of details here responding to Ascent's post, because myself and @MadCast: Lunalesk already made it clear to him in a conversation last night that TFT isn't as RNG laden as he seems to think it is.  There's definitely more skill to it and strategy, and it's very possible, even if you don't get the items you need from minions to find a way to win.  When the chips are down, skilled players utilize what they have and find a way to win.

Besides, if it's a 4v4 ffa, and we run 3 games of it, then we just add each player's points from where they place to their team and see who wins. 3 games also doesn't take that long assuming people aren't messing around in between games.

its not going to be tft

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14 hours ago, MadCast: Shattered said:

If anyone doesnt think CSGO is a good option, dont complain about it, give me a solution. tell me what you think a better option would be and we will move from there.

I gave you one, but then you reply with this?

4 hours ago, MadCast: Shattered said:

its not going to be tft

Cool, how about party style games like what was mentioned above?

On 10/16/2019 at 8:44 PM, MadCast: Kitty Stark said:

I'd happily offer an alternative tiebreaker that is much more susceptible to shenanigans, such as one of the JackBox games like Trivia Murder Party.

Or something like pummel party, or minion masters.  There's a lot of things out there that we could consider that are free to play and could be used as a tie breaker.

Edited by MadCast: Craiden

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11 hours ago, MadCast: Craiden said:

I worry about you when you make these comments.  This comment assumes that the physics of the game are perfect, and that you can't get (in your terms) lucky and clip a goal in / out via a glitch or RNG.

The physics may not be perfect but it's consistent 100% of the time

 

11 hours ago, MadCast: Craiden said:

I won't go into a ton of details here responding to Ascent's post, because myself and @MadCast: Lunalesk already made it clear to him in a conversation last night that TFT isn't as RNG laden as he seems to think it is.  There's definitely more skill to it and strategy, and it's very possible, even if you don't get the items you need from minions to find a way to win.  When the chips are down, skilled players utilize what they have and find a way to win.

I literally mentioned that skills can be used to offset the RNG factor
The reason people that are good are able to get to higher elo is because in 100+ games, the RNG distribution will be fairly even across everyone, which means skillful people will win more in the long term

6 hours ago, MadCast: Craiden said:

Or something like pummel party, or minion masters.  There's a lot of things out there that we could consider that are free to play and could be used as a tie breaker.

Both also RNG heavy games

 

10 hours ago, MadCast: Shattered said:

its not going to be tft

same

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9 hours ago, MadCast: Craiden said:

I gave you one, but then you reply with this?

Cool, how about party style games like what was mentioned above?

Or something like pummel party, or minion masters.  There's a lot of things out there that we could consider that are free to play and could be used as a tie breaker.

were not playing 2 skill games with a party game as a tie breaker.

possible alternatives to CSGO would be something along the lines of:
Rainbow Six Siege
overwatch
starcraft/warcraft
Fifa/NHL
Call of Duty(since it will be just coming out no one has played it, but it comes with 60$ price tag)
Battlerite
PUBG if and only if we can make a private match with a full map to ourselves with a BO3 or 5 since it has some RNG with circles

out of those, the ones that are free
CSGO
starcraft/warcraft
battlerite

 

Edited by MadCast: Shattered

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